Version 0.20 Update
I’ll start by saying that the 0.20 version is still on track for release and will be probably come out this weekend. I’m going to be busy for the rest of the week – which is the reason for the delay, but it’s very close to completion. All the weapon types are in and working, including the different materials (with bonuses and weight changes) – with the exception of bows, which will come later once I work on the ranged combat and spells. Currently I’m working on getting all the different armor types and materials working as well.
Once version 0.20 is released, the plan is to spend some time getting the Beta for DarkXL done, which is where the changes below come in.
Project Merger
I’ve been thinking about this, off and on, for a while now. But with the DarkXL Beta coming up this is basically my “last” good chance to get this done if it’s going to be done at all. I plan on merging the DaggerXL and DarkXL projects into one engine, the XL Engine. But the engine rendering and many other aspects are different, you may say – and it’s true. But there is a lot of code that can and should be shared between the projects. For example, much of the software renderer and hardware driver abstraction layers. The in-game console. The sound system. The midi playback system. The window/OS management and input systems, the scripting system. UI scripting ability, AI scripting, and so on. As I start supporting different OS’s and rendering APIs, this will save a lot of duplicate work. I’ve been considering, way down the road – post DaggerXL beta if it happens – adding ArenaXL as a project supported by DaggerXL. With the shared code base, I can use a lot of the same code that DarkXL will use for it’s sector rendering, for example.
There are other benefits: releases that work on technology now benefit all projects, no need to “port” from one to the other. As I brushed upon before, when I add support for other platforms – I add support for all the projects. When I make releases, it will be easy to make improvements for multiple games simultaneously. Some tools and mod support can be shared across projects (for example adding the DaggerXL texture replacers support to DarkXL). And finally I can merge the communities under a single engine/site/forum so that I can be active on all the projects and not just one at a time.
So what happens to all the different sites and forums that currently exist?
DF-21 will remain a resource for Dark Forces related files and forums. However I plan on setting up a new forum, for the XL Engine, and migrate all the projects to that forum. The DaggerXL forum will remain open for quite some time, but once I get things moving I will probably focus on posting over there and this one will slowly fade away. ( As sad as that is ) For the time being, I’ll keep the blogs around but I’ll probably start putting together an XL Engine blog and mirror posts across the others. As support for more games is added in the future, this will be a more scalable solution as well.
Does this change future plans for DaggerXL, modding support or other DaggerXL specific plans?
No. Full modding support is still planned, though many of the tools may be shared with DarkXL modding, BloodXL modding and so on.
Isn’t DarkXL a sector engine and DaggerXL a true 3D polygon engine? Aren’t these incompatible?
It is true that they are different but both can exist in the same engine. DarkXL actually supports rendering models already, they are used in Dark Forces for things like bridges, Tie Fighters, The Moldy Crow and so on. The way the level geometry is rendered is indeed much different, but the engine will be able to support both sector and “free-form” polygonal geometry. This has potential implications for modding, though those will be explored later. Things like scene traversal and level geometry rendering are different, but this won’t be the first engine to support multiple methods of scene traversal and rendering. A lot of the surrounding code will still be shared, so the savings offset the cost.
So here is my plan:
1) Release version 0.20 of DaggerXL.
2) Finish the DarkXL Beta.
3) Merge DaggerXL and DarkXL under the new XL Engine, where DaggerXL and DarkXL are two games supported by the engine.
4+) Continue to work on the projects as I have been, but with everything together it’ll much easier for me to keep everything going rather then letting one or another stagnate.
The order of 2 and 3 may change. My gut instinct is to get the merge done before the Beta but completing the Beta first gets a long overdue build out sooner…, but that is beyond the scope of this topic.
Finally, I have to ask the community: Are you guys willing to do this? To move to new forums, to intermingle with Dark Forces, Outlaws and Blood fans? Of course each game gets it’s own sub-forum so it’s not complete anarchy, but you get the idea. I know it’s sudden for you guys, but it’s been on my mind for a while now. Ultimately I think this change would be an improvement for all the projects – DaggerXL included – but I would appreciate it if you guys let me know what you think.
April 13, 2011 at 3:06 am
I don’t know enough about the technical aspects to comment on that, but if this will ease your burden I’m all for it. As for merging communities I would think that would be a minor thing.
Bring it on!
April 13, 2011 at 4:40 am
I’m of two minds on this one. While it sounds convenient having one engine cover all, I’m having trouble imagining the merger would go terribly smoothly without one or the other project suffering, initially at least. Besides, optimizing a single engine to play too many different types of games could end up being problematic in the long run, I’d think, as each type of game would require different types of optimization.
Of course I’d be happy to be proven wrong, I haven’t released a 3D engine before so I wouldn’t know. (wrote a flakey sector-based engine once but it was terrible)
April 13, 2011 at 5:33 am
Go for it! Seems like a great idea.
April 13, 2011 at 7:30 am
You should definitely do it. Don’t duplicate!
April 13, 2011 at 7:49 am
@vcatkiller, one word: ScummVM
I wouldn’t worry too much about the technical implications of the merger. As far as we know, Lucius knows what he’s doing.
As for the community side of the merger, I don’t really mind at all. Besides, as I’m also interested in DarkXL, it will be nice to get all the information I want from one place.
April 13, 2011 at 8:51 am
I’m all up for the merge of the two forums! As I’ve never visited the DarkXL forums, I wouldn’t mind seeing whats going on over there. I may even be interested in playing it.
As for the technical side of things, I don’t see why lucius can’t merge the engines…He’s been writing two at the same time for ages now. I’m pretty sure he can handle managing them together.
Besides, I’m 110% sure he knows what hes doing.
April 13, 2011 at 9:39 am
Wow cool!
What will happen to the DarkXL forums? (Not the DF-21 forums, but the other.) Will you change it to the “XL” forums?
April 13, 2011 at 11:16 am
They will also be closed down. Once there is done, there will only be one main set of forums for the XL Engine and DF-21 for Dark Forces related stuff. That site will fill the same role that Bethesda’s site or UESP.net currently does for Daggerfall/Elderscrolls.
April 13, 2011 at 10:34 am
If you ask me, I think that merging these projects can cause some dangerous incompatibilities or something. I always say: if something does everything – it does nothing. STILL, you’re the genius here, not me. You’re Lucius. So as long as you know what you’re doing I believe in you.
April 13, 2011 at 11:28 am
Personally I think this is an excellent idea and it makes perfect sense.
With the community-merger end, you might want to get some hardcore moderators (if you don’t already have some) to make sure posts/threads are on topic. With fans of these different games/projects intermingling, I can see cross-posting issues occasionally happening. So yeah, step up the moderation – and the rules, and things should be good.
April 13, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Just so long as they promise not to make fun of us because our monocles and tophats are out of fashion.
April 13, 2011 at 4:12 pm
I’m not at all familiar with Dark Forces. But I’m just astonished that you can work on two games at the same time, however you do it.
But hey, this is your project (both of them), and I’m sure you know what you’re doing. (If not, I certainly wouldn’t be able to tell!)
April 13, 2011 at 9:11 pm
I’m for what ever makes it easiest for you, Lucius. If merging the projects makes it easier (and if it will make DaggerXL get here any faster), then I say go for it! I really appreciate all the time and hard work you put into this!
April 13, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Definately wouldn’t mind as both projects are very enticing (not to mention all the potential spinoffs games…). Really you had me at “ArenaXL”
April 15, 2011 at 1:12 am
I’m willing to give it a try.
April 16, 2011 at 3:08 pm
I’m split. I see the technical gain for merging, especially in a longer term sense, but it feels sudden to me. I think you should go out of your way to make sure everyone knows how to get to the old forum while allowing them to also go to the new one. For the past few times I’ve been unable to find the link to the old forum. The old forum has a lot of information on it and some background that I think is valuable to daggerxl. Myspace just recently went up to 3.0 and i lost my old settings. It was very frustrating. This feels similar, except myspace is worse than this.